We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful

"...and if they're Northern that makes it even worse." sang Mozzer.

Not having seen the new set performed yet, there’s been lots of reading through the live reports so far and it's been great to hear so many enjoyed themselves, whilst feeling for those who didn't get quite what they wanted. With a heavy dollop of Devil's Advocate, it put me in mind of this quote from the Q interview:

"I read the forums and our hardcore fans don't want us to be successful", says Mark Potter. "They don't want us to be playing arenas. So this album could not be what people are fearing [i.e. 11 versions of One Day Like This]".

Food for thought, eh? For Mark – and for all we know, the whole band - to think that some of their longest-standing fans are bailing on them is quite a jolt. From this side of the stage it doesn’t look like that, based on the number of forum posts, other media interest, sales and bums on arena seats.

So what’s the real issue here?

Is it the transforming nature of success and what that means to fan AND band perceptions? Or do we just dislike gigs in large, soulless spaces? If you have a tendency to like music which isn’t in the mainstream, what happens when those artists become big? Some bands quite obviously sell out, but elbow aren’t doing that. BARB demonstrates they keep on keeping on with that same creative and personal integrity. FFS, they’ve earned it for so bloody long, success at this stage seems unlikely to change who they are or what they do.

Is it the loss of intimacy that people associate so closely with the band? Well, the arena reports say the lights, dressing, sound and banter have been well thought through to minimise giant shed syndrome, so we can’t say they’re unaware of how much that means.

Personally, a major reason arena gigs are off-putting is they’re all hours away from where we live, but have to admit I’ve had both good and bad experiences with arena crowds, acoustics and the ability of the bands to connect with their audience. If anything, it makes a change to be able to buy tickets: There’s been more elbow gigs I’ve missed because they’ve sold out too damned quick than I care to remember.

What d’you reckon?

For me, success or otherwise is irrelevent to me enjoying listening to music. I looked forward to this latest album's release and b-side just as I had with all the others.
Its great that more people are now able to appreciate their music.

When I've been to gigs, local, or up and down the country in the past, I've often picked them for the variety of venue, ease of getting to, or making it into a little holiday so

Quote :

do we just dislike gigs in large, soulless spaces?

yes, if it means trotting out all the radio friendly crowd pleasers, only playing the songs which sold the most, to play safe because that is what is expected in arenas.
The arena I am going to is actually really close to where I live, yet I've never been till now. It is the hugest of this tour, and if Elbow and their sound team can produce the excellent sound we are used to, at the O2 london, then that will be a true accomplishment!
Roxy music played at the O2 recently and in the clips I've seen their sound was booming, echoey and distorted.

Members of Elbow themselves, likened the album release to giving birth, and have spoken of their songs as if they were chidren.
Some of those children have been taken out, had fun and were played with for a while and then have been discarded, others have been put on display on an album, or b-side but never taken out to play at all.
Yet other children have got loads of attention, and some still are, perhaps too much for their own good.
Visitors who come later, do not even know that some of these children were even born and allowed out for a while, and make a fuss of the ones that show off that they see the most of.

A friend of mine who saw elbow live for the first time in 2006, yet only owns the album 'asleep in the back' listens to xfm radio and commented on the great amount of airplay the latest single was getting, yet he said he doesn't think that single is of any greater merit than any other elbow songs he has heard.

I'm delighted that the band have become huge. I hope they enjoy it while they can. It's a fickle business and I can't see them headlining two nights at the O2 while they're promoting their next album.

I do however have a problem with the set they seem to be playing on this tour which is made up almost entirely of songs from what I consider to be their two weakest albums. However, as a band playing to arenas of fans that will mostly only know songs from these albums, I acknowledge they have little choice in that.

So, do I have a problem with the band now? No. I suppose any issues I have are with problems bought about by a new fanbase...

It must be very bitter-sweet for the band. Create great music which is universally lauded; have to play arenas (or play the smaller venues 5 times over) and have the original fans shake their heads at proported selling out. Can't win really. However, I sense that they will not always play these enormous caverns. Their music doesn't really lend itself to fist pumping and anthemic choruses, One Day Like This being the obvious exception. I mean, cast your mind back about 6/7 years ago and David Gray was playing Earls Court. I don't think he could sell it out now.

I think this is Elbow's 'Born In The USA' tour (this is when Springsteen went stratospheric). Obviously they have to cater to the masses that purchased TSSK and BARB in droves, not just the relatively modest core support who has been there from year zero. It would be obtuse and churlish not to - leave that to the likes of Tom Waits or Leonard Cohen who frankly could never garner the support to sell out an arena.

They are trying their hardest to make these gigs as intimate and personable as they can under difficult circumstances. Think we should give em a break or else go and see somebody else not so popular and probably not quite as good.

It's a great subject matter MrsW - I don't think that I can add any further value to what's been said.

I'm delighted they've 'finally made it' - the band as people appear to have remained grounded, a HUGE reason to why I love them - the new album's great, the effort for the arena shows is greatly appreciated by myself......as long as the band stay true to themselves, there's absolutely no way am I bailing out on this band.

Keep going lads, keep producing beautiful music.

Speaking from the other side of the Pond, where Elbow isn't big....

I don't think that anyone truly wants Elbow to be unsuccessful. That's just silly; I and every other fan wants to hear new Elbow music for many years to come.

If there's something that I will mourn the loss of when the band becomes big and known on this side of the Pond, it's the anonymity of Elbow's music and the "cult" nature of following the band. I've discovered there are three Elbow fans in my office (I ran into the other at an Elbow gig in DC a few years ago), and of the three, I'm probably the hard core-est of the three. Knowing Elbow is like speaking a secret language, and when the day comes and Elbow cracks the US, the secret language isn't as secret any more.

I felt this way about, surprisingly, Coldplay. I'd bought The Blue Room as an import -- and I loved it. When Parachutes came out, I knew exactly what it was. And while "Yellow" was pretty big, it wasn't huge, and when everyone and their mother bought A Rush of Blood to the Head, I felt more than a little jealous that lots of people were suddenly listening to "my" private band. But I got over it, because Coldplay was always going to be so much bigger than me.

When Elbow makes it big, some Elbow fans will doubtless have similar feelings. Elbow, our private little bad, now bigger than we ever dared dream. It doesn't mean we feel the band "sold out." In the back of our minds, we'll all know that Elbow finally made it. For all the bands that toil for years in semi-obscurity, Elbow will have taken flight and reached their potential. Elbow will be so much bigger than me.

(I'm writing this, really, from an American perspective, where Elbow is still semi-obscure. "Grounds for Divorce" is probably the band's big, noteworthy song over here. I'm also writing this before my morning coffee kicks in.)

That's my view.

And, My Bury Vest, I approve of your avatar; after a year, I still listen to Teen Dream about once a week.

Now, that the record is out and I like the music on it I know at least, that Elbow are still the band I fell in love with back in 2001.
It won't be easy for me to see them in bigger venues, just because it is not easy for me to watch a band in a huge crowd but I hope that I will still get my first row place when they come back to Germany.
I still love Elbow and I hope the success will not spoil their freedom. And if they get even in Germany Arena-big I hope I will get a good seat on the first row on the balcony like I got for the Rush concert in Frankfurt.

I don’t think I can really pin point where I am on this… I confess to being a bit mixed up about elbow at the moment. As one of the most constant features of the past 10 years in my life, the sound track to the 00’s for me, I’ve grown attached to a vision of their music & the band that perhaps doesn’t exist in reality…

For one, I’ve wanted nothing but success for the band – would be a shame for them to never receive the recognition they truly deserve (alfie are an example of what happens on the flip side). TSSK has guaranteed a future which V2 showed was at times tenuous. With success comes compromise though, musical they’ve negotiated that problem successfully. live though seems to be have been a harder manoeuvre which (going by the posts on here) would be something they’ve been less successful at. Perhaps as mentioned, this tour is a one trick pony, draw a line under the TSSK and promote BARB… naturally that’s not something they can admit too…

The human mind works by comparison, and the one comparison I perhaps see may be with the ‘Travis curve’… a band which went stella off the back of the Britpop\Oasis bounce and scored a massive success with ‘the man who’ that enabled them to sell out arena’s in support of the ‘invisible band’ album… however, subsequently there was a diminishing return on sales and venues until their last tour was back in universities…

But just reading that back in black & white makes me sound sad and insular to their success. For anyone who’s seen them on this tour, the common theme is when guy asks who are seeing elbow for the first time that night, I think the % show of hands is the same at each venue, I think its that which is pee’d me off… I don’t want to share (single child thing!), but we all started somewhere?

As a big Genesis fan who missed the gabe era and come in during the 80s I never *got* the division in the ranks between the prog rock gabe fans and the populist collins fans that followed – since the TSSK I now *understand*… in a way, it could be said that its better to have only got into the bad recently, then you have no memories to let go of…

I think its time to let go of my band…

See I told you I didn’t know where I stood – if anyone makes sense of this post could they explain it to me…

One thing is for sure...

I've always been 'the musical one' in my family and circle of friends. I discovered Asleep At The Back back when it was released after reading a review stating early genesis and talk talk influences. I was hooked immediately.

Like always, I always try to share the gifts amongst my friends when I discover something new but typically I was confronted with indifference when I played them AITB.

This week, I've had friends, my brother and even my Dad telling me they've bought the new Elbow album. (Trying to tell me that I should check them out because 'they're really good' lol.)

I told them all they should buy the other 4 albums as well. And listen to my musical opinions more. They've missed out on 10 years of Elbow goodness!!!!

Their popularity is certainly spreading.

In response to the previous post about the Collins/Gabriel rank splitting, I never got that either. It's all good music by great songwriters!!!!

Paulo Paulo wrote:

In response to the previous post about the Collins/Gabriel rank splitting, I never got that either. It's all good music by great songwriters!!!!

Agreed. Though my take is slightly different: I don't think the schism was properly felt until Steve Hackett left. Wind & Wuthering and A Trick Of The Tail were creatively successful and Collins showed how good a lead vocalist he was. With Hackett gone the songs became simpler, poppier if you will. Not so much on And Then There Were Three, but certainly on Duke then Abacab. As soon as the horns were introduced this probably reduced a lot of the die-hard fans to tears. But it's all good. Home By The Sea is as good a song as Musical Box for me.

I think there's a danger in becoming unnecessarily critical.
What's just happened ? - Have these gents just released a crap, overly commercial album ?

...No, didn't think so.

They can't possibly remian static for any of us, whether your favourite period of time was AITB, COT, Leaders or TSSK.

Time moves on, things change (not always for the better) but lets not be overly harsh.

Having seen them last night for the umpteenth time at the NIA in Birmingham I felt like a parent whose child has grown up and left home to face the big, wide world. Proud at what they've achieved but tinged with sadness. I've loved elbow since John Peel put powder blue in his festive 50 and have been involved in a discreet affair with them ever since, (along with thousands of others). What we loved was the fact that we knew something that the rest of the world hadn't noticed. That this band, who could make grown men weep with their achingly beautiful songs, had been missed by everyone else, and so we privileged few felt dare I say, smug that we knew. But now the secret is out. I'm pleased for them, they deserve all the success that is coming to them. But when Guy announced that they were going to play an "old one" last night it was almost greeted with a groan. At that moment I knew things would never be the same again and one could not help feel a touch of regret, New Born, Scattered Black and Whites, Leaders Of The Free World, Grace Under Pressure all missing from a set list which was dominated by the most recent two albums, (the 1st elbow gig I've attended when new born wasn't played).

Whilst hoping that we might hear one or two older tracks live, it's really no big deal to me if they don't. Lots of bands focus the current live set on the latest couple of albums.

It's always a moveable feast; last time out, the set was built around TTSK and LOTFR, this time round it's BARB and TTSK.

I wouldn't want the band to think that 'the fans' have turned against them, because that simply isn't true. One or two aren't happy for one reason or another, that of course is their right, but from what I've seen and read, even that hasn't been particularly scathing; a lot of the comments regarding the setlist, for example, seem to stem from a wistful nostalgia for the older material coupled with a perceived sense of loss because things aren't quite the same as they used to be.

The last thing I would expect is for elbow to become their own tribute act and it isn't unreasonable that the majority of the set is built around their two most successful albums to date.

People rightly treasure the memory of having seen them in the early days, but let the bird fly free, let them be...ahem...progressive.

I'll be pointing my fingers at the sky with 10,000 others, I won't be stood outside clutching my Noisebox EP tut-tutting to myself.

chapeau_ wrote:

Having seen them last night for the umpteenth time at the NIA in Birmingham I felt like a parent whose child has grown up and left home to face the big, wide world. Proud at what they've achieved but tinged with sadness. I've loved elbow since John Peel put powder blue in his festive 50 and have been involved in a discreet affair with them ever since, (along with thousands of others). What we loved was the fact that we knew something that the rest of the world hadn't noticed. That this band, who could make grown men weep with their achingly beautiful songs, had been missed by everyone else, and so we privileged few felt dare I say, smug that we knew. But now the secret is out. I'm pleased for them, they deserve all the success that is coming to them. But when Guy announced that they were going to play an "old one" last night it was almost greeted with a groan. At that moment I knew things would never be the same again and one could not help feel a touch of regret, New Born, Scattered Black and Whites, Leaders Of The Free World, Grace Under Pressure all missing from a set list which was dominated by the most recent two albums, (the 1st elbow gig I've attended when new born wasn't played).

Couldn't agree more.
The most frustrating thing is that there are people out there who think that TSSK is Elbow's first album. I was at a gig in Llandudno a couple of years ago and had to listen to some prat repeatedly shout out 'Any Day Like This'??? When they played Fugitive Motel and Scattered Black & Whites he told his friend that they were new songs and he didn't think much to them!

Mr Woman wrote:

, let them be...ahem...progressive.

I'll be pointing my fingers at the sky with 10,000 others, I won't be stood outside clutching my Noisebox EP tut-tutting to myself.

Lol...ahem..you have no idea.

Its actually around 20,000 capacity at the o2, where I will be on tuesday.
'little fish you count for nothing...'
Apparently there is not many of us.

chapeau_ wrote:

I felt like a parent whose child has grown up and left home to face the big, wide world. Proud at what they've achieved but tinged with sadness.

That's probably the best way of articulating this transition as I've heard...nice one chapeau.
We've been there! Our kids are 18, 23 and 26 and over the last few years they have started to make their own mark on the world. It's what you always wanted for them, you are so pleased for them and it's the natural thing to happen if all goes well. So it's great but it's a bit sad as you realise a great part of your life has changed forever. Anyway, we can't (and shouldn't) turn back the clock; be thankful you were lucky enough to experience it in the first place, treasure the memories and look forward to many great things to come.

The Live at the Astoria EP came on shuffle on my iPod earlier. I miss that elbow.

Since Sunday (when I saw them in Liverpool) I've been thinking about how to put my feelings into words and this is probably the best thread to do it. Basically I'm thrilled that they've made it - through all the years of, yes, having this band as kind of a lovely secret (though shouting about them to anyone who'd listen! ) it does feel a bit strange. But as long as the music is good, it's not the bigness that bothers me and for a huge gig I think they did it very well. But I have to say I didn't come away as elated as I always have from an Elbow gig. It's not the music it's the live experience - I like BARB as much as any of their albums (except AITB which is just... up-there special). Yes I was one of the ones who was disappointed they didn't play any of their old stuff, but in a way I'm glad they didn't; like the live experience generally I will just remember how the older songs I did see live were.

Don't get me wrong - as others have said, they did it very well, and it was lovely to see them enjoying the fact that they've "made it" and feeling you were part of a kind of celebration. It's a personal thing - I've never been one for audience participation - arm-waving, clapping, singing along - I listen to a lot of folk music and they always have a few "here's one with a chorus, all join in". No thanks, not for me. I want to listen to the music, connect with it, get swept away by it. I know that kind of listening has been criticised as boring on another thread, fair enough but each to their own. Trouble is, if I stand/sit further back I feel distanced from the band/surrounded by inconsiderate talkers/realise just how horribly huge this all is - just really feel the distance - but up at the front where I like to be, I join in because you can't not do, because it's what the band and other fans want and it's all part of it. And I like it for the occasional song of course, but not the majority of the gig. Generally it's not me enjoying the music in the way I want to. (And yes I know I can do that with a CD at home, but heainrg and seeing them play live is completely different even without the audience participation). So either way I feel distanced. I don't begrudge the band anything, I'm delighted for their success but this kind of gig is not for me.

Back in 2003 whan COT came out I started going to live gigs again after several years of not doing, totally because of Elbow; I said this band is going to be big and I want to see them before they get too big. Well it's taken years, and I'm pleased for them, but I think the moment of "too" big (for live gigs) has arrived for me. I will continue buying their records as long as they continue making records I want to listen to (which it looks like will be for a long time to come - to quote a comparison from earlier in this thread I'm one of the early Genesis people who doesn't like stuff after Wind & Wuthering - and I don't get any of that feeling about recent Elbow albums at all).

Sorry about the essay, I just wanted to let it out. And I hope I won't be accused of turning my back on old friends!

Glendarian wrote:

Since Sunday (when I saw them in Liverpool) I've been thinking about how to put my feelings into words and this is probably the best thread to do it. Basically I'm thrilled that they've made it - through all the years of, yes, having this band as kind of a lovely secret (though shouting about them to anyone who'd listen! ) it does feel a bit strange. But as long as the music is good, it's not the bigness that bothers me and for a huge gig I think they did it very well. But I have to say I didn't come away as elated as I always have from an Elbow gig. It's not the music it's the live experience - I like BARB as much as any of their albums (except AITB which is just... up-there special). Yes I was one of the ones who was disappointed they didn't play any of their old stuff, but in a way I'm glad they didn't; like the live experience generally I will just remember how the older songs I did see live were.

Don't get me wrong - as others have said, they did it very well, and it was lovely to see them enjoying the fact that they've "made it" and feeling you were part of a kind of celebration. It's a personal thing - I've never been one for audience participation - arm-waving, clapping, singing along - I listen to a lot of folk music and they always have a few "here's one with a chorus, all join in". No thanks, not for me. I want to listen to the music, connect with it, get swept away by it. I know that kind of listening has been criticised as boring on another thread, fair enough but each to their own. Trouble is, if I stand/sit further back I feel distanced from the band/surrounded by inconsiderate talkers/realise just how horribly huge this all is - just really feel the distance - but up at the front where I like to be, I join in because you can't not do, because it's what the band and other fans want and it's all part of it. And I like it for the occasional song of course, but not the majority of the gig. Generally it's not me enjoying the music in the way I want to. (And yes I know I can do that with a CD at home, but heainrg and seeing them play live is completely different even without the audience participation). So either way I feel distanced. I don't begrudge the band anything, I'm delighted for their success but this kind of gig is not for me.

Back in 2003 whan COT came out I started going to live gigs again after several years of not doing, totally because of Elbow; I said this band is going to be big and I want to see them before they get too big. Well it's taken years, and I'm pleased for them, but I think the moment of "too" big (for live gigs) has arrived for me. I will continue buying their records as long as they continue making records I want to listen to (which it looks like will be for a long time to come - to quote a comparison from earlier in this thread I'm one of the early Genesis people who doesn't like stuff after Wind & Wuthering - and I don't get any of that feeling about recent Elbow albums at all).

Sorry about the essay, I just wanted to let it out. And I hope I won't be accused of turning my back on old friends!

I completely understand where you are coming from. For 20 years I had sworn off stadium gigs as I could not 'connect' with what was going on a couple of hundred yards away. Then my 17 year old son wanted to see Muse at Wembley Stadium - we'd seen them a couple of times before and whilst they're not my favourite group I enjoy them, particularly in a live setting. So tickets for last year's show were duly bought.

I knew I was in trouble when my legs and back started to ache ... and the third support act (Biffy Clyro - great band) hadn't even took to the stage. By the time Muse came on to a fanfare of sirens and flags (bit poncey if you ask me) I was feeling dehydrated and 'distant'. Yes, the gig was good but I didn't feel emotionally engaged. And then you have the fist pumping and singing of choruses. It was all a bit U2 for my liking.

Now I dare say I may have felt similar sentiments to you at Elbow if I had not been so close to the stage/walkway. It's a curious thing, but it's very easy to blank out 9,000 odd people if you have eye contact with the band members and the sound is good. Heck, for most of the time I even forgot about James (son) and he was directly behind me. What a pleasant surprise when I had a look at all the video footage he'd taken - I'd been completely unaware that he'd even taken the camera!!

But, to cut to the chase - if you feel that the gigs are 'too big' for your tastes, then you're right. Nobody else has a say in the matter. And there is no sense of you turning your back on old friends ... simply a sentiment that you prefer smaller, more intimate gigs. I had to laugh when I went to see U2 in 2001 at Birmingham NEC. At one point Bono said to the crowd "You know it's lovely to play such a small venue again ... I can actually see people's faces!" Crikey, if the NEC is small then I wonder what a big venue is??

I've been very fortunate to have seen Elbow play some very small shows in places like Barfly in Liverpool & Blueprint In Manchester. I think it's important to point out that although the venues may have got bigger the guys in the band are still as grounded and friendly as they were ten years ago. I had a good chat with all of them at the aftershow in Cambridge and the one thing that struck me was just how unaffected they are by their rise in popularity. Guy was so chuffed as a number of us told him how many shows we were planning to attend on the tour. He was amazed at the lengths people goto to watch the band and thanked people for making the effort. He was genuinely interested in what people were saying and chatted to us like he'd known us all for years. You certainly wouldn't get Bono or Chris Martin doing that!

Long may they enjoy their sucess. It's well deserved. I know that the hardcore and loyal fans amongst us will see Elbow play small intimate venues again one day in the future. We may have to wait 10 or 20 years for it to happen, but it will. :-)

Yes indeed, one of the reasons I wrote what I did is because I was, I suppose, shocked to read that there was any hint of a feeling that people thought they'd sold out or begrudged their success or whatever. No way - one thing I've always loved about the band (apart from the music, which is paramount) is the fact that they're so down-to-earth and not arrogant or taking anything for granted. You still get the feeling they're just enjoying being there and loving having got what they've worked so hard for. Wonderful.

Just because I personally don't like big gigs (thanks Cozzer for your understanding ) and can't get into the music that way in no way means I think they've sold out or anything - the music itself says it all - they 100% haven't.

Cestrian Saint - I hope you're right about 10 or 20 years time - though if we mere mortals could ever get our hands on tickets for such gigs is another matter. I live in hope.

sparky wrote:

chapeau_ wrote:

I felt like a parent whose child has grown up and left home to face the big, wide world. Proud at what they've achieved but tinged with sadness.

That's probably the best way of articulating this transition as I've heard...nice one chapeau.

chapeau_ & sparky... concur 100% - you've articulated far better than me what i've been feeling... thank you. as a parent of a 3yo little girl i'm way off the flying nest stage, but i'm learning from this experience... :-D

thank you

Glendarian wrote:

Since Sunday (when I saw them in Liverpool) I've been thinking about how to put my feelings into words and this is probably the best thread to do it. Basically I'm thrilled that they've made it - through all the years of, yes, having this band as kind of a lovely secret (though shouting about them to anyone who'd listen! ) it does feel a bit strange. But as long as the music is good, it's not the bigness that bothers me and for a huge gig I think they did it very well. But I have to say I didn't come away as elated as I always have from an Elbow gig. It's not the music it's the live experience - I like BARB as much as any of their albums (except AITB which is just... up-there special). Yes I was one of the ones who was disappointed they didn't play any of their old stuff, but in a way I'm glad they didn't; like the live experience generally I will just remember how the older songs I did see live were.

Don't get me wrong - as others have said, they did it very well, and it was lovely to see them enjoying the fact that they've "made it" and feeling you were part of a kind of celebration. It's a personal thing - I've never been one for audience participation - arm-waving, clapping, singing along - I listen to a lot of folk music and they always have a few "here's one with a chorus, all join in". No thanks, not for me. I want to listen to the music, connect with it, get swept away by it. I know that kind of listening has been criticised as boring on another thread, fair enough but each to their own. Trouble is, if I stand/sit further back I feel distanced from the band/surrounded by inconsiderate talkers/realise just how horribly huge this all is - just really feel the distance - but up at the front where I like to be, I join in because you can't not do, because it's what the band and other fans want and it's all part of it. And I like it for the occasional song of course, but not the majority of the gig. Generally it's not me enjoying the music in the way I want to. (And yes I know I can do that with a CD at home, but heainrg and seeing them play live is completely different even without the audience participation). So either way I feel distanced. I don't begrudge the band anything, I'm delighted for their success but this kind of gig is not for me.

Back in 2003 whan COT came out I started going to live gigs again after several years of not doing, totally because of Elbow; I said this band is going to be big and I want to see them before they get too big. Well it's taken years, and I'm pleased for them, but I think the moment of "too" big (for live gigs) has arrived for me. I will continue buying their records as long as they continue making records I want to listen to (which it looks like will be for a long time to come - to quote a comparison from earlier in this thread I'm one of the early Genesis people who doesn't like stuff after Wind & Wuthering - and I don't get any of that feeling about recent Elbow albums at all).

Sorry about the essay, I just wanted to let it out. And I hope I won't be accused of turning my back on old friends!

Glendarian - I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from .

At Sheffield I was pretty near the front - yes, i like a few tinctures pre gig, probably more than I should, but on Saturday as I was bellowing the words back at them, I definitely felt like I was fighting tooth and nail to keep one of my first loves as I've always remembered them, sort of deep down I was telling all the starers, during the 'Leaders...' tracks, "THIS BAND ARE THE BEST - AND i DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT"

Yes, it felt different from the Academy and Ritz gigs I'd been to - there's no doubting that but I couldn't be more pleased for the lads - GENUINELY, coz it's absolutely deserved.

And I'll be shouting out for them even louder on Friday !!! *goes for a lie down*

we all feel the same chuffed for the boys but sad we have to go see them in arenas where the majority of the crowd havent got a clue about elbows lyrics and music and only interested in one day chapeau you got it bang on with what you wrote

chapeau_ wrote:

But when Guy announced that they were going to play an "old one" last night it was almost greeted with a groan. At that moment I knew things would never be the same again and one could not help feel a touch of regret, New Born, Scattered Black and Whites, Leaders Of The Free World, Grace Under Pressure all missing from a set list which was dominated by the most recent two albums, (the 1st elbow gig I've attended when new born wasn't played).

That sounds frightening. No Newborn? It was sad enough that "Red" and "Fugitive Motel" disappeared from the list. But maybe time will tell. By now Elbow has no club gigs in Germany...